THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCEThis post compiled with help from:
USS Ben USN (ret)
Storage Manager (The Missing Link)
Meeks in CA
And a host of ubiquitous clandestine informants
from the Zionist Hobby Center
"To defend the Bible in this year 1798 would cost a man his life.
The Beast and the Whore rule without control."
~ William Blake
Pastor John Hagee Response to Media Coverage
What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
~ Ecclesiastes 1:9
Pastor Kristopher Okwedy's Billboard
Shalom Infidels!
What this is all about ~ at it's essence ~ beyond any anyone's personal, secular, ecumenical or otherwise reactions to John Hagee or his statements (which were basically Biblical quotations from the book of Jeremiah) ~ is whose world view will prevail in our culture, The Secular Socialist Premise of Life or the Judeo-Christian Premise of Life?
Yes Virginia
you may not be interested in Holy War
but Holy War is very interested in you,
and Islam is only one of three enemy-isms we face in it.
Fascism and Communism being the other two.
And they all meet thrice daily at Jew Hate Junction.
Why? Because the Jews are the bearers of GOD's Covenant in this world.
Jew hate, as you can see, will now be expanded to Christian hate
as the Christians carry The Covenant into the world as well.
This Hagee flap (and many other things we see happening today)
is not really about what the chatter purports it to be about.
It is about the words in your mouth.
What terms and definitions will BE ALLOWED to populate the mouths of the masses?
What the Whores of Gramsci want is control of your speech.
Language is the substance of thought.
He who controls the language controls the thoughts and the power of the people.
Biblically speaking, Language IS the very force of creation.
Biblically speaking,
someone with the word of GOD in their mouths is a free man, even in prison.
A man that can not be broken.
A man redeemed before he sees his redemption.
A totalitarian society can not bear a free man like this.
Usually they nail them to trees, either literally or figuratively.
You can clearly see all around you that freedom is defined for you by a secular socialist mindset as "lack of consequences".
This translates psychologically speaking to:
"I am inconsequential"
Which is precisely the desired effect.
Very easy to conquer a society that considers itself inconsequential
and furthermore does not even realize it. Thinks it is BASKING in freedom.
Contrast this with the man that has been set free by the WORD and the TRUTH ~
This is a man free indeed.
A man quite prepared to bear burdens and consequences of that freedom.
In this way the Jewish people have survived all attempts to destroy them from the time they were separated unto GOD until today.
Therefore the true Christians will also survive all attempts to destroy them,
as they are walking the same Covenant out into this world.
Hagee knows all this. He is prepared to bear the burden. He is free indeed.
The Bible is now legally "Hate Speech" in Canada, Sweden, California and elsewhere
All of these events are connected and can not be considered apart from each other.
Europe and Canada are our object lessons. In a secular socialist society the Whores of Gramsci will bend the knee to the Beasts of Islam. The only thing standing between America and total Euro Style Dhimmification are the GOD Mouths.
And they must be shut up.
Totalitarianism can not rise in the the presence of the GOD of Israel .
This is not my opinion, this is history.
For totalitarianism to rise and take power the Word of GOD and his representatives must be silenced, marginalized and ultimately destroyed.
( See Communism, Nazism, Islam, etc etc infinity)
Here is wherecommunism and fascism find common cause with Islam -
And Islam will turn on them last.
This is the same thing I have been saying about Scopes Monkey Trial 2008.
Which is not about Evolution VS ID or Science VS Religion
It is about whose TERMS and DEFINITIONS will populate the world view of the culture.
It is about control of speech.
It is about suppression of speech.
It is about what thoughts you will think in the future and in what terminology.
It is about control of the culture.
Whose words will be in your mouth?
~ BabbaZee
The prophets prophesy lies, the priests rule by their own authority,
and my people love it this way. But what will you do in the end?
~ Jeremiah 5:31
5 questions about Pastor Hagee and the Holocaust
Posted: May 25, 2008
Rosner's Blog
David Brog (short bio here) is Executive Director of Christians United for Israel, the organization founded by Pastor John Hagee (A dialogue I had with Brog two years ago is here).
Last week, Hagee was involved in a controversy - not for the first time - that resulted in a decision by presidential candidate John McCain to publicly reject Hagee's endorsement . McCain did this after is was revealed that Hagee "once described Adolf Hitler as a divine agent sent to force the Jews back to Israel" (more about this story here). In a written interview, Brog tries to explain Hagee's remarks.
Here is the interview:
1. The first question is an obvious one. Can you explain this quote in a way that will resonate with the readers:
"Then God sent a hunter. A hunter is someone with a gun and he forces you. Hitler was a hunter. And the Bible says - Jeremiah writing ? 'They shall hunt them from every mountain and from every hill and from the holes of the rocks,' meaning there's no place to hide. And that might be offensive to some people but don't let your heart be offended. I didn't write it, Jeremiah wrote it. It was the truth and it is the truth. How did it happen? Because God allowed it to happen. Why did it happen? Because God said my top priority for the Jewish people is to get them to come back to the land of Israel."
The theological exercise in which Pastor Hagee was engaged is so common that they have a fancy name for it: theodicy. This is the struggle to explain how a loving God could permit evil in the world. Religious thinkers have been debating this most difficult of questions for centuries and, of course, no one has come up with an answer that "resonates" with everyone. We just need to agree to disagree.
Pastor Hagee's view that an omnipotent God must sanction the evil in our world actually has deep roots in Jewish thought. To cite just one example, the Talmud teaches us that the Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed because of "sinat hinam," or baseless hatred. In other words, our own Talmud teaches that God used the Romans to perpetrate the greatest tragedy in the history of the Jewish people (until the Holocaust) because of Jewish sins.
We are certainly free to disagree with both the Talmud and Pastor Hagee on why God permits such atrocities. But I don't think it's fair to single out Pastor Hagee and act as if his approach is so unusual, unique, or foreign. Those who are shocked by Pastor Hagee's theodicy demonstrate only that they are unfamiliar with centuries of Judeo-Christian theodicy.
2. Pastor Hagee was saying that people were "grossly misrepresenting my position on issues most near and dear to my heart". How was he misinterpreted?
Pastor Hagee was struggling to find an explanation for why a loving God would permit the horror of the Holocaust. But the search for an explanation for evil must never be confused with an effort to excuse that evil. Most in the media missed this very crucial distinction and suggested that Pastor Hagee actually thinks the Holocaust was a good thing. Nothing could be further from the truth. Let's face it, blogs and sound bites are not exactly the best place to discuss such difficult theological questions.
3. In a speech a couple of months ago, rabbi Eric Yoffie of the Jewish Reform movement has said this : "By what right do we expect others to walk away from those who make anti-Jewish or anti-Israel statements when we will not walk away from those who make anti-Islam or anti-Catholic statements?" Some might say that Hagee's statements vindicated his claim - one can't expect others to reject anti-Semitism while one embraces a Pastor that see Hitler as a messenger of god. How will you convince them that these are two diferent cases?
I will convince them that they are different by pointing out the enormous and obvious differences. Pastor Hagee is a devoted friend of the Jews. The man has literally devoted his life to fighting anti-Semitism and supporting the State of Israel. Only a moral myopic could confuse this stalwart friend with an anti-Semite.
When trying to distinguish friend from foe, we would be wise to judge people by their actions. We would be making a terrible mistake to permit a few controversial comments to obscure our recognition of Pastor Hagee?s lifetime of work on our behalf. We have too many enemies, and too few friends, to be so cavalier in our judgment.
I must also point out that Rabbi Yoffie was far too quick to accuse Pastor Hagee of anti-Catholicism. Pastor Hagee never called the Catholic Church the ugly names reported in the media, and his criticism of the Catholic Church was limited to past anti-Semitism. Pastor Hagee has since expressed his deep regret for any hurt caused or misimpressions created in his zeal to combat anti-Semitism. He and Bill Donahue, the head of the Catholic League, are now friends. In fact, Bill Donahue said the following of Pastor Hagee on Thursday:
One week ago today, I met with Pastor Hagee in my office. I found him to be sincere, apologetic and friendly. I also found him to be the strongest Christian defender of Israel I have ever met, and that is why attempts to portray him as anything but a genuine friend to Jews - one for whom the Holocaust is the horror of horrors - is despicable.
4. If Pasor Hagee was merely saying that the sovereignty of the Lord operated over Hitler - was it a mistake on the part of candidate John McCain to reject his endorsement?
I regret Senator McCain's decision. But I can't say that I don't understand it. There is great hostility out there towards people who take the Bible literally. This is in many ways the last acceptable prejudice in America today. People who believe in an omnipotent God and who search the Bible for answers explanations of current events or history are subjected to the ugliest ridicule and derision. It may well be too much to ask a public figure to take on this kind of uphill battle.
In trying to create a more tolerant America, we should strive to extend ours tolerance to Orthodox Jews and Catholics and evangelical Christians. We need to ask ourselves, how would the faith of our grandparents fare in the current climate?
5. Two years ago, you wrote this (in a dialogue we had here): "you are right that many American Jews are uncomfortable joining evangelicals in support of Israel because they believe that evangelicals are too conservative when it comes to American social policy, Israeli foreign policy, or both. I think that this discomfort is largely misplaced." Don't you think the this recent controversy might make not just American Jews - but also Israelis - uncomfortable with the support they get from Christian Evangelicals?
I'm certain that this controversy will make some Jews uncomfortable. But the discomfort would still be misplaced. We as Jews are supposed to judge men not by what they believe, but by what they do. For Jews, actions are what matter.
What is far more important than how Pastor Hagee explains the past Holocaust is what he is doing to prevent a second Holocaust. Pastor Hagee has done more to defend Israel and the Jewish people than anyone else I know. He has literally devoted his adult life to the effort to combat anti-Semitism and build support for the Jewish State. Despite death threats from anti-Semites, despite protest marches from neo-Nazis, and despite the shrill complaints of suspicious Jews, Pastor Hagee has persevered in his work on our behalf.
Do we really want to treat our friends like this? Do we really want to ignore years of devoted labor on our behalf because of a few controversial statements? I, for one, do not.
An interview I had with Pastor Hagee back in 2006 is here
If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you;
if they kept My word and obeyed My teachings,
they will also keep and obey yours.
~John 15:20
Jews defend Hagee's words
"John Hagee is one of the Jewish people's best friends," Los Angeles talk show host Dennis Prager said on the air yesterday morning. "Identifying John Hagee with anti-Semitism would be like identifying Raoul Wallenberg, the great Swede who saved thousands of Jews in the Holocaust, with anti-Semitism."
Orthodox Rabbi Aryeh Scheinberg, of Congregation Rodfei Sholom in San Antonio, appeared at an afternoon press conference yesterday to say Mr. Hagee's "words were twisted and used to attack him for being anti-Semitic."
In actuality, Mr. Hagee "interpreted a biblical verse in a way not very different from several legitimate Jewish authorities," the rabbi said.
"Viewing Hitler as acting completely outside of God's plan is to suggest that God was powerless to stop the Holocaust, a position quite unacceptable to any religious Jew or Christian," the rabbi said.
"I have devoted most of my adult life to ensuring that there will never be a second Holocaust," Mr. Hagee told reporters. "I have worked tirelessly to eliminate the sin of anti-Semitism from the Christian world and to ensure the survival of the state of Israel."
At issue was Mr. Hagee's reference — in a late 1990s sermon and in his 2006 book "Jerusalem Countdown" to Adolf Hitler being a "hunter" used by God to force Jews to emigrate to Israel.
In a reference to the Book of Jeremiah, whose author predicts a scattering of the Jewish people but saying God would bring them back to the promised land, Mr. Hagee says in the sermon: "How did [the Holocaust] happen? Because God allowed it to happen. Why did it happen? Because God said my top priority for the Jewish people is to get them to come back to the land of Israel."
David Brog, a Conservative Jew who is executive director of Mr. Hagee's nonprofit Christians United for Israel (CUFI), said critics misunderstood the biblical context.
[SNIP]Pastor John Hagee - Christians United for Israel
I only know that in every city the Holy Spirit warns me that prison and hardships are facing me.
~ Acts 20:23
[SNIP]What is offensive about Rev. Hagee's remarks is the certainty with which he connects the dots of history. His conclusion is a logical error of the worst order. Coming after the fact does not mean that it is caused by the fact. Just because a pattern can be found does not prove its validity, even if it happens to coincide with a passage in a biblical text. It is the same error that my caller friend made. Both of them are willing to accept a picture of the Divine that runs counter to the intuitions even of the deeply religious. Without a voice from Heaven telling us otherwise, most of us could not imagine G-d allowing — indeed encouraging — the unspeakable horrors of the Holocaust simply because it was a pragmatic way to end two thousand years of Jewish exile from its land.
~ Rabbi Yitzchok Adlerstein
Some were quick to go to the other extreme, and deny the role of G-d in the Holocaust at all. They are the ones who like to give G-d credit only for the pleasant things, and attribute all the bad stuff to other independent forces, like chance and natural law. Their's is an expedient — and theologically shallow — way of dealing with theodicy. G-d can't be attached to any negativity, because He has nothing to do with it. Essentially, they are dualists; their approach is thoroughly un-Jewish.
I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.
~ Revelation 2:10
John Hagee: Victim of New Inquisition
A Jew in defense of John Hagee
~ by Dennis Prager
[SNIP]Pastor Hagee, a major supporter of the Jewish people and Israel, citing verses from Jeremiah, said: "How did it [the Holocaust] happen? Because God allowed it to happen. Why did it happen? Because God said 'my top priority for the Jewish people is to get them to come back to the land of Israel.'"
I am a God-believing, Torah-believing, religious (though not Orthodox) Jew, author of a book on Judaism and a book on anti-Semitism who does not agree with this theological explanation of the Holocaust.
But the notion that God willed the Holocaust is neither anti-Jewish nor even un-Jewish. There are, after all, only two possible explanations regarding God and the Holocaust:
1. God allowed it but did not will it.
2. God willed it.
This is simple logic.
[SNIP]
Note:
Hagee believes in and teaches things many I do not believe in, specifically "The Rapture" which I personally do not see in the bible - however, there is not a Pastor or a Rabbi out there that does not teach SOMETHING I do not agree with. Which is precisely why I am associated with no particular
~ ism.
This biblical "heresy" of Hagee's from my POV is not between him and me, it is between him and GOD. For all intents and purposes John Hagee and I are on the same side.
~ BabbaZee
Christians United For Israel
John Hagee Ministries
Cornerstone Non Denominational Church ~ San Antonio Texas
Senator Lieberman compares Hagee to Moses
Senator Joseph Lieberman is scheduled to headline Pastor John Hagee’s 2008 Christians United For Israel Washington-Israel Summit this July 22. In accepting Hagee’s invitation, Lieberman became the most senior elected representative confirmed to appear at the annual gala. Go Joe.
Pastor John Hagee on Christian Zionism on NPR, September 18, 2006
AUDIO
Pastor Hagee and Rabbi Scheinberg Respond to Recent Controversies:
Pastor Hagee's Statement
The past 24 hours have been extremely disappointing ones to me. My disappointment has nothing to do with the fact that I parted company with John McCain this was best for both of us and for the country. It is time the candidates and the media turn their attention back to the pressing issues of our day and stop focusing on what I did or did not say decades ago.
But what has been disappointing has been to see my life’s work the great passion of my life mischaracterized and attacked. I have dedicated my life to combating anti-Semitism and supporting the State of Israel. In taking a stand for Israel I have received death threats from anti-Semites and neo-Nazis, and I’ve had the windows of my car blown out beneath the windows of the rooms in which my children slept. To hear people who know nothing about me or my life’s work claim that I somehow excuse the Holocaust is simply heartbreaking.
Let me be clear -- to assert that I in any way condone the Holocaust or that monster Adolf Hitler is the worst of lies. I have always condemned the horrors of the Holocaust in the strongest of terms. But even more importantly, my abhorrence of the Holocaust and anti-Semitism has never stopped with mere words.
I have devoted most of my adult life to ensuring that there will never be a second Holocaust. I have worked tirelessly to eliminate the sin of anti-Semitism from the Christian world and to ensure the survival of the State of Israel.
I have traveled the country teaching Christians to love the Jewish people and stand with Israel. Our ministry has given over $30 million for humanitarian causes in Israel. I founded Christians United for Israel to bring together all pro-Israel Christians into a movement that can support Israel during these very challenging times.
The fact is that all people of faith have had to wrestle with the question of why a sovereign God would allow evil in the world. After Auschwitz, this question became more urgent than ever.
Many people simply could not explain how a loving God would permit such horrors. After the Holocaust, they abandoned their faith in a sovereign God who intervenes here on earth. While I disagree with this conclusion, I would never denigrate those who arrived at such a conclusion.
But I and many millions of Christians and Jews came to a different conclusion. We maintained our faith in a sovereign God who allows both the good and the evil that is in the world. We therefore search the scriptures for an explanation for that evil. We believe that the words of the Hebrew prophets such as Jeremiah may help us understand the mind of God. But our search for an explanation for evil must never be confused with an effort to excuse it.
What is more important than how we answer the question of where was God during the Holocaust is what we as men and women do here on earth to make sure that there will never be another Holocaust. We must give meaning to the words “Never Again” through our actions. It is to this effort this effort to fight anti-Semitism and to support Israel that I now return. Thank you.
Rabbi Scheinberg's Statement
I have known Pastor John Hagee for close to 30 years. Pastor Hagee is a man of G-d, a visionary leader, a person of courage and integrity, a lover of people of all faiths, an embodiment of truth, justice and kindness.I met him in 1981, when he stood almost alone in the defense of Israel, after Israel destroyed Iraq’s nuclear reactor in 1981. At that time, while the majority of world leaders criticized Israel, Pastor Hagee declared: Israel we are with you.” He was then as today a courageous Christian, guided by an unparalleled moral compass who distinguished right from wrong, good from evil.
The same zeal and vision that moved Pastor Hagee in 1981 to stand in the defense of Israel, has moved him to strongly condemn anti-Semitism and bigotry in its forms.
Pastor Hagee is a world leader in his support of Israel. For he understands that Israel is the only nation of the world who faces extermination for being a Jewish nation, for being a democracy, for being America’s most trusted and loyal friend among the nations, He understands that no other nation in the world has yearned so much, nor given so much, nor risked so much, nor suffered so much for the cause of peace, as Israel and yet has been so criticized.
It is ironic and absurd that when Pastor was lecturing on one of the Jewish perspectives of the Holocaust that his words were twisted and used to attack him for being anti Semitic.
Pastor Hagee said nothing of the kind. Pastor interpreted a Biblical verse in a way not very different from several legitimate Jewish authorities. Viewing Hitler as acting completely outside of God’s plan is to suggest that God was powerless to stop the Holocaust, a position quite unacceptable to any religious Jew or Christian.
No less an authority than the author of the Eim Habanim Semaichah, Rabbi Yisachar Shlomo Teichtal of blessed memory wrote these words while cowering in a Budapest cellar in the very midst of Hitler’s Holocaust: “Furthermore, the sole purpose of all the afflictions that smite us in our exile is to arouse us to return to our Holy Land.”
I have seen Pastor's tears and Diana's tears at Yad Vashem. They identify and feel the pain of our people, therefore I know that of all the criticisms that Pastor has been subjected to when he stepped into a political mine field, and of all the distortions of the truth that he had to contend with, this must be the most painful, because of his love for the Jewish people and his genuine total efforts to see that never again shall the Jewish people be alone in a world of apathy, hatred and anti Semitism.
A Holocaust survivor, who lived through the death camps of Auschwitz, recently declared at the San Antonio Jewish community commemoration of Yom HaShoah: “If during the Nazi era the world had leaders like Pastor John Hagee, 6 million Jews, among them one and a million children, wouldn’t have been brutally murdered.”
For posts I have made about Pastor Hagee in the past CLICK HERE scroll from the bottom up - the Walid Shoebat interviews are great
John Hagee on Israel, Iran and U.S. foreign policy - Part 2
Israel, Iran &Iraq - John Hagee (Part 1)
Israel, Iran &Iraq - John Hagee (Part 2)
John Hagee With Brigitte Gabriel on Islam Part 1
John Hagee With Brigitte Gabriel on Islam Part 2
John Hagee With Brigitte Gabriel on Islam Part 3
IS NOT AN OPTION.I have posted watchmen on your walls, O Jerusalem;
they will never be silent day or night.
You who call on the LORD, give yourselves no rest
~ Isaiah 62:6
For Zion's sake I will not keep silent,
for Jerusalem's sake I will not remain quiet,
till her righteousness shines out like the dawn,
her salvation like a blazing torch.
~ Isaiah 62:1
May 29, 2008
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: Morton A. Klein
New York –Today, Morton A. Klein, the National President of the Zionist Organization of America (ZOA), issued the following statement in defense of Pastor John C. Hagee, the Evangelical Christian leader and head of Christians United for Israel (CUFI), against attacks upon his work in support of Israel and the Jewish people:
"Pastor John C. Hagee is a staunch friend and supporter of the State of Israel, of Zionism, and of the Jewish people. The recent attacks on him that have surfaced in the media are ill-informed, offensive and deceitful ploys to marginalize and isolate particular pro-Israel opinions and sow further seeds of dissension between Jews and Christians. The political context of this controversy is no less troubling.
"Pastor Hagee has dedicated his life to combating anti-Semitism in the Christian world and supporting the State of Israel, and to ensuring that there will never be a second Holocaust. He and his ministry has given over $30 million for humanitarian causes in Israel, and he founded the group Christians United for Israel (CUFI) to organize and coalesce pro-Israel Christians into a large movement solely to support and build support for the State of Israel. Along the way, Pastor Hagee has traveled across the country spreading his message to Christians to love the Jewish people and stand with Israel.
"As a child of Holocaust survivors, born in a displaced persons camp in Gunzberg, Germany, I do not necessarily agree with every theological interpretation or spiritual message that Pastor Hagee, or anyone else, has sought from the Shoah. But one thing is clear — any interpretation by Pastor Hagee about the Holocaust is not based on any animus towards the Jewish people, which his lifetime of extraordinary pro-Jewish, Pro-Israel work clearly demonstrates. In fact, many leading rabbinical scholars have offered the same interpretations and found the same spiritual messages. It is not incumbent on anyone to agree with such interpretations as a prerequisite to embracing Pastor Hagee in the larger cause of strengthening and protecting the Jewish people by standing firm with Israel and against her enemies. There is no one who can doubt Pastor Hagee’s love of the Jewish State and of the Jewish people. He is a Zionist, in the purest sense of the term.
"The State of Israel remains besieged by her enemies and under enormous pressure with few friends, defenders, and supporters. Pastor John C. Hagee is a friend, a defender, and a supporter of Israel and his support is critical. He sends a message to the President and Congress and to the media and to the State of Israel that the Jews are not alone, thank G-d. Pastor Hagee teaches a love of Israel and love of the Jewish people, and actively confronts and combats anti-Semitism. He has reawakened the hearts and souls of many thousands of Christians, inspiring them to realize G-d’s holy land was given to the Jews, his chosen people. He has worked long and hard to educate others about the threats Israel faces, and about the dangers of pursuing mistaken or wrong policies. I thank G-d for instilling in Pastor Hagee the courage, wisdom and leadership to stand with Israel and to combat anti-Semitism. On behalf of ZOA, I thank him for his continued friendship and support."
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